Morning Extras: Who is Philly's Biggest Rival?

This is not a new topic by any means, but it comes on the heels of our good friends at Mr. Irrelevant posting this photo over the weekend. I don't know how we missed it, but in our defense it was posted on Sunday and we were in the midst of kissing our sisters. Or the Bengals were kissing our sisters. Whatever.

Some person in Virginia spent MONEY to have this license plate. Really? PHK-FLLY? You hate Philadelphia that much, you're getting that on your license plate? Who are you, this guy?

It's clear someone in the DC area hates Philly. So it does introduce the question...who is Philly's biggest rival?

There are two ways rivalries are born – regional proximity of division teams and consistent competition on the largest stage of play. That's why for many years the Lakers and Celtics had a better rivalry than say, the Lakers and Clippers or why for a few years the rivalry between Duke and Maryland was almost as intense as that of Duke and North Carolina.

Since the Philadelphia teams have not been consistently on the grandest stage all that much in the last, say, forever, let's leave that one aside. I know people tried to make the case that Philly has some strange rivalry with Tampa because the Bucs won a football game and the Lighting won four, but that wasn't a rivalry. It was annoying. And now it's over.

So, if you go with the assumption that Philadelphia's rivalries are rooted in division play, by looking at football you'd have to limit the choices to Washington, New York or Dallas. Now, adding in the other sports, you eliminate Dallas – as much as we hate them in football – because they have no connection to any of the other sports. So that was easy; Washington or New York.

The Case for Washington:
Is there really a case for Washington? Their baseball team stinks, and it seems the biggest rivals we have associated with the Gnats are their "beat" writers. The Caps and Flyers have had some heated games over the years, but once they moved Washington to a different division, they cut that rivalry off at the skates. The same thing goes for the NBA. It's like Washington is in the south and Philly is in the east. I never thought of it that way, but from a winter sports standpoint, that's how it goes. And you can't have a regional rival that's not in your region.

Obviously the Redskins aren't well liked, but it seems like the Skins fans (much like many Eagles fans) get more excited for Dallas week than Eagles-Redskins week. So...on to New York.

The Case for New York
While writing this, it became pretty damn anti-climactic. Clearly our biggest rival is New York. Let Dallas and Washington have each other, the Eagles biggest rival is and should be New York. I know people think they hate Dallas more, but regionally it should be New York.

When you think about hockey, what teams do you immediately hate first? The Rangers and Devils. Or Devils and Rangers, depending on the year. You can make the case that the Devils are in the New York market. Even without them, the Rangers are not well liked in these parts.

If the Knicks weren't a laughing stock over the last how many years, there might be some juice when they play the Sixers. Let's look forward to that vitriol.

And oh yeah, those Fightin Phils have a rival, don't they? Let the Yankees and Sox get all the headlines. The Mets-Phillies rivalry is as good as any in sports. My best friend from college – a Mets fan – has still yet to call me since the World Series. This one's not just for the cameras. Those guys really don't like each other.

Conclusion:
This is a no-brainer. New York is our biggest rival. So why the hell does that guy in Virginia hate us so much? Find your own damn rival! Maybe Charlotte is available. Feel free to agree/disagree in the comments.

LINKS:

• Our own Matt P wrote up the Flyers post for Illegal Curve's State of the Atlantic Division.

• More on the Gnats writer who didn't vote for Howard...with TEN spots open. I hope his privileges are revoked. From Zolecki.

• WashPost's Mark Maske thinks the Cowboys are the second best team in the NFC.

• ESPN gets the BCS through 2014. If we believe Obama, let's hope it won't be around long enough to care.

• Some fallout from the Mullet getting the axe. And some shots from Rick Tocchet as well. Who wants to bet he doesn't make it to next year? What, too soon? (via Puck Daddy)

• The GOP lost another seat. How could this Ted Stevens race be this close after he was indicted? Ah, Alaska.

• Howard Kurtz commented yesterday, wondering if it's that big a deal that we'll have the first African-American attorney general now that we have the first African-American President. Still a good step, no? Congrats to Eric H. Holder, if he takes it.

• Finally, two dogs in China have joined a swim club. I don't want to know what happens if they lose.

PHOTO PHUN:

Yesterday's Winner: NOTE: Do not attempt to use necktie as a noose. For more effective method, soak tie in ammonia and stuff in oral cavity. - ill

Honorable mention to the other few, but this echoes the sentiments we were looking for

Today...come up with the best license plate for DC fans. We'll post the winners tomorrow.

Comments

[siralden]

D*MB-C*NTS

[Mr. Bryan]

Dude drives a Touareg, enough said.

[R.S.]

No, no, no, this is all a big understanding.
The license plate is an abbreviation for Phuket Fully!

He is a Thai Enthusiast. (not to be confused with yesterday's TIE un-enthusiasts.)

[R.S.]

or, ya know, MIS-understanding.

R.S. your illiteracy has screwed us again!

[DLo34]

In looking at the question, it seems to me that the proximity is the biggest thing because it isn't the onfield rivalry as much as the office/work rivalries. It's the hatred of going to work in the Pennsylvania/New Jersey area after the Giants beat the Eagles and the joy of getting to your office on a Monday after the Phils just swept the Mets. Hence my top 5 rivals are all proximity rivals which anyone ever jumping on the NJ Turnpike has to deal with on a regular basis. The odd one is Dallas, but that still derives from a proximity hatred because there are so many people throughout the nation in the age 20-40 bracket who love the Cowboys because when they were young their parents did not love them and so they latched on to the only thing that could give them a taste of what it's like to be a winner. Frontrunners.

My Top 5 Rivals

1. New York Mets
2. New York Giants
3. New Jersey Devils
4. Dallas Cowboys
5. New York Rangers

My Top 5 (Active) Hated Players

1. Terrell Owens
2. Sidney Crosby
3. Billy Wagner
4. Scott Rolen
5. J.D. Drew

[BadMotherFutley]

Is that Buzz Bissinger's license plate?
(Can't get to KSK from work to link the appropriate post)

[G.E.]

New York clearly over Washington. My antagonism for the Cowboys does not extend to the Rangers, Stars, Mavs, or various college programs. Phils-Mets is now a primetime rivalry. Eagles-Giants is an all-timer- 75 years of bad blood tends to bring out the best in both squads, and how fondly we remember the Runyan-Strahan games within game. Flyers-Rangers and Flyers-Devils- has same effect on all related teams. Was a sad day for me when the Knicks hired a first-rate basketball executive in Donnie Walsh to clean up the Landfill on 33rd St. Isiah...come back.....more contracts for jailbirds, please........

[yellowbird]

our biggest rival?

everyone who isnt philly.

[JD]

i actually saw this car on 95 about a month ago.

and yes, its the kind of person you expect to be driving that car. i gave them the finger. that's pretty much the only language a person in that kind of car understands anyway.

anyhoo-for the most part, 'skins fans are pretty impartial to us, granted we aren't playing them in the given week. it's nothing compared to the dallas-hate. more like "the enemy of my enemy" kind of thing.

[ill]

I like the Philadelphia sports teams vs the Philadelpha fans rivalry. Seriously, we are our own worst enemy.

[Chris Mottram]

"So why the hell does that guy in Virginia hate us so much? Find your own damn rival! Maybe Charlotte is available."

I know this is complicated and would require looking at a map, but as we noted on Mr. Irrelevant, that plate was spotted in Falls Church, VA, which is about 10 mins outside of D.C. Slightly different than some backwoods area of VA, hours from the District.

[Dan Levy]

Hey, Don't the Mottrams live in Carolina now? Yes, duly noted that parts of "Virginia" are actually "DC" and "DC" is really "Maryland."

We get it. Still think of anyone south of the Potomac (or is it West) as a backwoods hick.

[Chris Mottram]

"Still think of anyone south of the Potomac (or is it West) as a backwoods hick."

And we still think of anyone near Philly as an insufferable douchebag. Sadly enough for both of us, neither your nor our stereotype is likely true.

[Dan Levy]

Ehhhhh, we're pretty much all douchebags. And after the Phils win, I expect us to become increasingly insufferable.

[Loqiel]

We're not Red Sox nation. We still remember how it feels like to have a WHOLE TOWN suck for 25 years. We're not going to become overbearing schmucks because our team won one championship, largely in part because we're not satisfied, we can't die in peace, we want more.

That's the difference between us and RSN, and us and the insufferable schmucks THEY have become.

As for biggest rival? Pittsburgh. I grew up hating the Pirates and Pens. I will ALWAYS hate the Pirates and Pens. That only got reinforced for me more when I went to Penn State and lived in State College for eight years and was one of a slight minority of Philly fans.

Screw Pittsburgh.

[CMc62480]

I see these plates all the time down here. It's mind boggling how many people take the time and money to personalize their plates down here. It's also an interesting fact that cars with these types of plates in VA get broken into more!

Here's my plate for the Philly haters that I deal with every day, maybe I'll just get it too: PHINALY

[Wick]

He's probably upset that since the Phils won the World Series, DC now owns the longest sports championship drought (1991)by a city with four major teams.

(BTW, Minneapolis also has a drought since 1991 when the Twins won the World Series that October. But the Skins won the Superbowl earlier in that year so DC has the longer drought.)

[Wick]

NY Teams are our biggest rival. Ask anyone living in Central Jersey where the neighborhoods are 50% Eagles and 50% Giants. Also Phillies vs. Mets is pretty intense.

2nd place for rivals is Philadelphia Eagles fans vs. Philadelphia Cowboys fans.

[CMc62480]

Apparently, PHINALY is taken by a lot of people already. I hope they're all Phillies' fans. In that case, here's a plate that captures most of the sports enthusiasts down here:

WNABFAN

[Steve]

I would have to say that the city of Pittsburgh really get my blood boiling. I always felt indifferent towards them, but then I went to school at Penn State and the loathing began. Granted, we don't play the Stillers enough to consider them a 'true' rival and the Pirates are irrelevant, their fair weather Penguin fans are simply awful. Then there is the University of Pittsburgh, which is overrated in every sport in any given year, awful. However, the Stiller fans are unbearable. Their Christ-awful "Here We Go Steelers" chant is nauseating and those white trash Terrible Towels are pitiful. I despise their history and the majority of the players on their team. Ben Roethlisberger is not nearly as good as these idiots make him out to be. Their main argiment being that he won a Super Bowl. Well, with the offensive line and running game that he had, he certainly should have won. Then again, he performed so poorly that they had to have a wide receiver (and quarterback from freaking Indiana) throw the TD passes. I don't hate the Stillers as much as the Cowboys or the Giants, but they are definitely tied with the Redskins, if not a little bit ahead of them, simply because the 'Skins just always seem like an afterthought to me.

[theKrisheim]

fuck everyone

[Loqiel]

At PSU we referred to Pitt as "your fifth year of high school".

Make of that what you will.

[Jay]

Wick,

Washington didn't have a baseball team until 2005. Minnesota didn't have a hockey team until 2000. If you're going to look at 3 sport towns then Cleveland has the longest drought. Minnesota may very well have the longest streak for a 4-team sports town, but you can only date it back to 2000 not 1991.

[jay]

Actually Cleveland didn't have a football team for a few years either. So the hell knows anymore. PHUCK IT. WE WON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zagurski]

I completely agree with the anti-pittsburgh PRO team hatred. The steelers and Pens are god awful to watch and I've had to suffer through it the last 4 years here at pitt. What I don't understand is the anti-University of Pittsburgh bullshit from the PennStaters out there. HAHAHA yea our football team is overrated, nice loss to IOWA, considering we trounced them this very year. And nice basketball team too, they're looking great as always. Not to mention Pitt is higher ranked then PennState academically Typical bullshit from pennstate kids who somehow think state college is part of philadelphia, you think living in pennstate is so rough cause you have to deal with pittsburgh fans, try living in the city dumbass.

I would also like to suggest the city of cleveland being our sports ally. They're just like us minus the hockey team and lack of recent championship.

[Tartan69]

I would at also least include Boston, Atlanta, and Miami in the conversation (along with Pittsburgh as others have stated). Definitely not above NYC or DC, but the Braves, Marlins, and Celtics/Bruins are up there on my "hated teams" list.

[Adam B]

I'm totally down for making New York the root of all of Philly's sports ills, but Pittsburgh's definitely a dark horse candidate and I'm glad other posters mentioned it before me. I always thought intra-state (and in some cases intra-city) rivalries throughout sports had some allure to them in general, and here in PA are the east-west, McCoy-Hatfield specifics:

1. Phillies-Pirates. I know this hasn't been a hot ticket since the teams were in the same division. Still, there are some historic connections. Wasn't an upper-deck Vet seat painted to mark a Willie Stargell bomb? Didn't Michael Jack Schmidt hit #500 in Three Rivers? Maybe it's never been the most aggro rivalry, but no doubt we still leer at each other.

2. Steelers-Eagles. True, we don't play each other very often -- hell, we've even played TOGETHER under the "Steagles" heading. Yet when we face off, even in the preseason, doesn't every commentator under the sun hype it up as "The Battle for Pennsylvania"? So thank the media for adding heat to this. Plus there's the whole AFC-NFC supremacy thing, and lately the games have been decent statistical matchups of playoff-contending teams, right?

3. Flyers-Penguins. Not gonna go into all the details, but no doubt this is the biggest component of this cross-state rivalry.

4. Penn State-Pittsburgh college football. I'm going to go on the word of other posters above that there's real disdain (albeit seemingly one-sided) between PSU and Pitt on fall Saturdays. Technically, that *should* translater here since the Nittany Lions are Philly's de facto college team. (Temple what?)

5. Villanova-Pittsburgh college hoops. In the monster conference that is the Big East, these two teams -- whether they're both in the Top 25 or not -- always seem to play meaningful games. And I'm not just talking about the conference tourney at MSG.

Speaking of the Wildcats... I know Washington's out of the running for our top rival, but the Villanova-Georgetown legacy can't be ignored. Surely that scores the District a few more hate points?

[kendynamo]

i agree, ny and philly should and do hate each other. re: the vanity plates, the only cost $10 in VA. thats why there are so god damn many of them. for $10 who wouldnt get sweet tags like that?

[will]

id have to say boston is a runner up to the more sensable geographic rivals--ny and dc. they dont like us as much as we dont like them. i hate the red sox as much as i hate the mets. the celtics are gay and the bruins are yellow. im sure others agree, but i dont hate any professional sports team more than the patriots. honestly, i rooted for the giants. think about it, what does a city or team have to do to turn a die hard philly fan into a giants fan for 3 hours.

dc plates--GAFami
think about it

[PDunne]

@Steve, Logiel,
I graduated in '04, and have found my hatred of the "Stullers" diminishing greatly since being out of Dear Old State.
Funny how it happened, but this year I just found myself completely indifferent and even pulling for the Steelers and noticed my Pittsburgh friends were pulling for the Birds. I guess the longer you're away and the fewer friends keep dumping on the E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES chant (like Here We Go Steelers is that creative!) the more that fire dies down. Not at all with you guys?

And come on, can you really even make fun of the Pirates?

Now the Penguins are a different matter entirely. I think they're tied with Rangers as far as Flyers rivals go. Can't stand the team, Pens fans, and I even find myself wanting to feed the cold tank birds to the nearest Lion (preferably Nittany) cage.

[PDunne]

...at the zoo.

[Mike H.]

It has to be New York based on the rivalry of all four sports and other intangibles. The Mets-Phillies rivalry is as intense as ever. The Flyers have had intense rivalries with North Jersey and the New York teams over the years. (Check out some of the hockey fights from the 70s and early 80s on YouTube.) Eagles-Giants goes back almost 30 years. 76ers-Knicks is probably the only one that doesn't size up.

You got to be a first class D-Bag to be from Washington and pick a fight with Philly. Don't they all hate Dallas more than anyone else anyway?

[Mike H.]

But I also want to give a tip of the cap to Pittsburgh. Every time they were in the same division, those games were intense. Mike Schmidt broke a finger once while going after a pitcher (Bruce Kison) because he threw at him.

[Steve]

@Zagurski, loss at home to Bowling Green and you "trounced" Iowa at home by one, while PSU lost to them on the road at night (essentially) by one. Basketball wise, you couldn't be any more on target, their basketball team is horrible and nobody really cares or pays attention to them.
@PDunne, what sucks is that I graduated in 2007 and am still up here working. The guy at the desk next to me has a huge bright yellow Terrible Towel hanging up and constantly criticizes the Eagles. I occasionally have to remind him that he is from Harrisburg, which pretty much shuts him up. I would actually like to see some sort of shake-up in the MLB divisions with the Marlins relocating (AL West territory?) and the Pirates joining the NL East. That would be pretty cool, but yeah, the Pirates are hard to make fun of because they are just so awful.

[TJ]

I ran into 3 guys from Pittsburgh in State College this weekend. When I say ran into I mean almost fought. They were wearing Penguins gear and were being obnoxious as normal. I asked them if they were Pens fans when the team almost packed up and moved out of the city and no one went to any of the games.

If those guys are reading this: Blow me.

[Pete D]

License Plate:

DMV-DEEZ

As in DC-Maryland-Virgina: Dees Nuts.

Have to include the DMV since no who "cheers" for DC teams really are from, nor live in, DC. And I can vouch for that since I lived within a mile from FedEx Field for 3 years and worked in Northern VA. So glad to be back in Philly.

[Loqiel]

If I recall correctly, Schmidt hit a three-run jack for his 500th against the Pirates that gave the Phils an 8-6 lead.

Also, if I recall correctly, the 1993 Phillies clinched the NL East with a win over the Pirates.

[Loqiel]

Also, I'm a Broncos fan by birth, and it was awesome watching Denver beat Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship Game in Atherton Hall's TV lounge and watch all those Steelers fans walk out, heads down, towels limp, after they were so sure they'd beat Elway, Davis and Sharpe to get into the Super Bowl.

PS. I lived with a Steelers fan for my first semester there and he was the most obnoxious, overbearing guy I have ever met. I hope he is somewhere out in western PA, dying of VD.

[MCG]

The dude undoubtedly lived in Philadelphia for some span of time. As a 'skins fan living in Philly for 9 years, I was completely indifferent to Philly teams. But after living here for a while, I hate the Iggles fans more than any out there. I'm sure a good portion of the fans are intelligent, reasonable people (I'm friends with a lot of them), but for the most part, there's are reason the eagles fans are considered the most ignorant cavemen in sports. Defend them all you want, you know its true.

[ebradlee10]

DC Tag: LV-ABRMF

As seen on K Street.

[Don M]

Why do people hate Scott Rolen so much??? Because he asked to be traded because he knew the Phillies wouldn't have a chance at the Playoffs for another 5-10 years?

I think he's a douche, but I don't hate him.. Billy Wagner I hate, the whole Mets team, I hate really. Even T.O. ...he's a douche too, but he's a joke, and I couldn't care less that we let him go and he wanted more money and andy reid sucks as a coach anyway, and wouldn't we all sell our souls to have a WR like T.O. on our team now...

[CMc62480]

@MCG

Allow me to present the reverse. I've been in DC/No. VA for over 8 years, and it's laughable how fair weather the fans are, and how awful Skins fans are at Fed Ex Field. You give away the seats by the thousands whenever you guys are mediocre, let alone lousy. Even this year, trying to catch the Giants, you let Steeler fans invade your home turf. I don't think I saw that at the Linc.

You obviously have let the years of Vet continue to dominate your opinion of the Eagles' fans. Or maybe you just don't know what passion looks like, given the teams you grew up around.

[will]

MCG, the fact that you think the eagles fans are cavemen means you've bought into that stereotype laid out after years of negative stories. Now-a-days, you seek facts that only strenghten that stereotype, overlooking everything else that might be other there. Children and unreasonable girlfriends buy into simple stereotypes that describe us as a whole. wait, im wrong let me revise.. racist, prejudice or naive people buy into that stuff. Defend your boring opinion all you want, you know is true.

[ill]

LV4SKINS

See, it goes 2 ways. See what I did there? Stoopid Redskins fans.

[MCG]

Don't pretend that when the vet went down, all the sudden people got civilized. I'll completely agree that the media has it out for the philadelphia fan base, but don't pretend the stereotype isn't unfounded. I made a point to say that most of the fans aren't that way, but unfortunately the most boisterous and ignorant ones will always stand out. You all just have a higher concentration of said fans.

[Joey]

Top 5 Rival Teams to Philly

1. Dallas Cowgirls
2. New York Giants
3. New York Mets
4. Atlanta Braves
5. New York Rangers

[stevefredericks]

the sudden people didnt get civilized, but the un-sudden people did.

[Jason]

Here's the top 5 Philly rivals the way i see it...

1. eli (douche) manning and the new york giants (i hope they all get in some kind of plane accident and cant play the rest of the season and all have MAJOR injuries, Eli manning getting the worst followed by the coach.

2. Penguins (how can you say Crosby is not one of the most HATED ppl in philly, seems like we forgot the penguins also make our skin crawl with disgust.)

3. Dallas (FUCK dallas, enough said)

4. Rangers-Devils, or Devils-Rangers (it depends on the season and whose good and whose not but these two teams are basically hated equally.

5. Last is the new york mets (god i hate the mets and all of their cocky latino players, they have all but two white guys on their team. The good news is, WE OWN THEM. They can't beat us and we just won the world series, this rivalry is basically Eagles-Giants in reverse.

Thats how I see the top 5 rivalries in Philly Sports. Sorry basketball but the NBA sucks and I haven't seen a heated NBA game since the Pistons pacers brawl and that was towards the fans.

[jason]

@ Zagurski

Oh and by the way, if you check the forbes 100 top college list I believe penn state is a whole 16 positions higher then you on top academic list. I know I would be mad too if I just made things up on a whim and was called out on it. 8 of my friends go to Pitt while I myself bleed blue and white at state college and they always tell me how ugly the girls are out there, I heard about something called Pitt-Goggles funny how Penn State girls where tiny little dresses when they go out and Pitt girls put on their overalls and comb their beards.

[Billy]

1. New York Mets
2. New York Giants
3. Pittsburg Penguins
4. New Jersey Devils
5. Dallas Cowboys

And we just have to hate on Boston