Morning Extras: Is Fandom a Birthright?

Yesterday, what I thought was a funny aside about deciding to become an Eagles fan after all these years – something I thought would have come with "Phinally" and "welcome to the club, loser" comments – was admonished and crucified. Vilified even.

So, is fandom a birthright? Is it ever possible for someone to change their allegiances or have no allegiance at all and be a casual fan of the sport in general? At what age is that fandom written in stone? Is it pre-natal or is there a test-run period of time when kids get to try out the fandom to see if its a compatible situation? Can you ever change the team you root for or are you stuck dancing with the one who brung ya?

There were some angry comments yesterday about my E-A-G-L-E-S chant reference at Phils games. Surprisingly angry. So the follow-up question to that is: do you have to bleed Green in the fall just because you bleed Red in the summer and Orange in the Winter (and Red, White, Black, Blue and Gold in the winter too)? I'm not trying to be a smart ass. People brought up these questions in the comments and I thought it made sense to get everyone's opinion on this. And to the commenter who stated that the chant is more about the city than the Eagles; on the road, sure. Around town, maybe. But not at a Phils/Flyers/Sixers game. If it was about the city, the chant would be P-H-I-L-L-Y PHILLY! Which isn't half bad.

LINKS:

•My guy John Gonzalez looks deeper into this Donovan McNabb situation, explaining that if you don't want to talk about the tie anymore, you don't go home and blog about the tie. Gonzo also dissects the Tim Tebow-esque charity work of Tony Romo, and throws in a Dexter reference because Gonzo is the man.

• Don McKee invoked the name of Jim Edmonds to patrol left field for the Phils. He's another lefty bat, and while his argument may be compelling as well, it doesn't make sense to get another lefty bat in that lineup. Here is a list of the 2009 free agents. So unless there's a trade out there, one of these players will be in left next season. Kevin Mench, anyone? People love Rocco Baldelli, but I'm not sure he's played on back-to-back days consistently in over three years. If he can stay healthy, he's perfect, but he's never been healthy in his career.

• The NYT looks at advertising at the Olympics and how the residual Post-Olympic benefits never materialized for corporations spending millions at the Games. The Beijing Bounce, as they called it, became the Beijing Flop.

• So how about this mess Browns GM Phil Savage got into by sending a one line email to a badgering Brown fan? Deadspin has the latest, with a link to the full emails and an interview with the fan who started it all. The fan feels worse than anyone. Lesson: when a shark tries to bite you, punch him in the nose. He'll stop. You can always apologize for the punch, but you can't apologize for letting the shark eat you.

• The Mighty MJD has a list of teams who can win the Super Bowl. Giants and Dallas are on there. So are Green Bay and Arizona. And, gulp, Baltimore. Oh, he also takes Warren Sapp to task for taking Donovan McNabb to task.

• Welcome to the Phlogosphere Big Five Post.

• For college hoops you can also always visit Soft Pretzel Logic. JT told me yesterday he didn't feel like his blog is MSM. He works for Philly.com, so I told him he's nuts. But he can use the hits and the site is good. Especially the weekly Schuylkill 16 weekly poll.

• We were linked in the links post over at Doug Glanville's House (or at least a house he built), which I think is next door to Mondesi's house, and around the corner from Animal House, Pee Wee's Playhouse and Tyler Perry's House of Payne. He is not of big fan of a certain contributor on this site (hint: it's not Clare) but he's a good guy and I'm sure would be happy if you clicked this link. Sorry, sorry... THIS link.

• Everyone keeps linking to the new Life Magazine photos that Google has up. If you missed the post yesterday, here's a reminder. I hope Sam Dalembert sees this link.

• One more note about this daily mash-up. We've tried to take this Extras and make it more than just links from around the internet. Sometimes its been a more in-depth look at a play, a game, a star athlete or a topic around town. Sometimes it's been whatever pops into the head at 5:00 a.m. that in some haphazard way tries to continue an on-going conversation on the site, the comments, the water cooler, sports talk radio or the internet in general. If anyone has been offended by anything written in this space, I'm sorry for that. If anyone thinks its a giant waste of self-absorbed time, I'm sorry for that too. And you can skip the post if you feel that way. But for the rest of you, thanks for reading and being a part of the conversation, even if you want to beat me up and steal my lunch money every once in a while.

Comments

[BFisch]

I live in Lancaster PA but I'm only a hardcore Flyers fan. I rooted for the Philles though cause my Orioles were finished in August. And I dont hate the Eagles but I'm a Redskins fan.
I dont think people should support based on where they live, choose up your teams when your old enough to get the sport. But when your a kid you root for whoever your dad/mom likes.
GO FLYERS!

[zachman]

My mother was originally from Eastern PA so she was a philly/ psu fan. My father originally from the Denver area likes all of the teams associated with that region. Since my father was in the military he went on deployment druing what my mom called my developmental years. and she raised me to like the Eagles, Phillies, Flyers, Sixers and Penn State. I also have a level of hatred for the Avs, Broncos, Rockies, and Nuggets just because of my my dad. So to answer that question i dont believe it is pre natal, and i am sure that if my father was not in the military that i would be a denver fan...Thank god i am not!

[enrico]

If you're from a good Philadelphia family, your teams choose you.

And the PHilly chant idea is horrible. Disapprove.

[Saul]

There is an extent to which your teams choose you, as Enrico indicated. But there are strict rules here; Bill Simmons has a column worth reading about the "ethics" of sports fandom. I, for example, was born and lived until I was six in Connecticut. However, neither of my parents really care about sports, and both are from the general DC/Baltimore area anyway. So I have a hard time hating New England and DC teams for that reason, but I'm certainly no fan. I became a self-aware sports fan in Philly, and local pride drew me to Philly teams - as Enrico said, the teams picked me.
If you parents are from two different cities, as one of the other posters here said, it can have a lot to do with how they raise you, but it's acceptable there to go either way.
I don't think it's possible for a fandom to be an "incompatible situation." Different fan groups may express themselves differently, but ultimately being a fan of any team has a lot of the same characteristics. For most people, being a fan is a matter of city pride, as it is for me. For a few, they become a fan of a certain player for whatever reason and, lacking a team already, become a fan of that player's team.
But ultimately, no. You don't have the right to switch teams. If you've been a casual fan of the game, with truly no allegiances at all, you can pick a team, but only with really good reasons - and where you consider your hometown should be overwhelmingly important. I think the ONLY exception here is if you are an immediate family member of an athlete.

[Reverend Paul Revere]

"but he's a good guy"

Let's not get carried away here.

[RyanAbrams77]

I grew up in the NY area my entire life, but my dad is from Philly. Had I Been a Yankess, Giants, Knicks and Rangers fan (or Mets, Nets, Jets and Devils), I would have 4 World series (5?), 2 super bowls, and a Stanley cup (more if I was a Devils fan).

But, I am proud of the fact I was raised a Philly fan, and despise all New York/NJ teams and argue with all of my friends every season and am the first person people call to gloat about a victory. I wear the failure like a badge, and carry it around wherever I go. No impulse is stronger than that of philly phandom, and this I am living proof of.

[DLo34]

The chant is about Philly, and the PHILLY chant just does not sound right. I think that you just don't like hearing the EAGLES chant at Flyers/Phils/Sixers games because you hear it when one of those teams are losing. But the fact is, as a season ticket holder to the Flyers Phils and Eagles and for two former seasons the Sixers, I have heard the EAGLES chants at Flyers wins (playoff/regular season), Phillies (World Series/regular season), and Sixers (playoff/regular season).

As I have stated before the EAGLES chant is about Philly. While I was walking out of one of the World Series games I heard it, and it was like a victory cry. But similarly, when you hear the EAGLES chants at one of the other Philly teams' games while they are losing however, it is the equivilent of booing. I assume you are against it because the EAGLES chant is like say "oh forget this team - this is a football town," well that is just flat our inaccurate. When you hear an EAGLES chant when we are losing it is basically another way to boo the current performance of the team they are watching. You are not against booing are you? Because when the teams are losing and you hear it they are the same damn thing.

The bottom line is the EAGLES chant is a form of expression of either displeasure (different form of booing) or a form of battle/victory cry (different form of cheering).

[Lehigh Chris]

Dan, the way you put it yesterday made it sound like, eh... I guess I'm gonna start rooting for the Eagles now because there's no better options. It almost seems forced. I could appreciate more if you had a moment of realization such as being at a game and saying to yourself, you know what, I love this team, I love this stadium, I love everything about it. That's what all Eagles fans learn quickly while growing up. We hold on to these memories, good and bad. We remember going to the stadium and thinking to ourself just how cool it is.

I LOVE THE EAGLES!!!!

Also, I enjoy the setup of this morning post. It gives me a nice recap and the links put me onto stories I normally wouldn't find.

[Wick]

Fandom is not a birthright, BUT, local pride is at stake every game. The scoreboards on Fox Sports, ESPN, CNNSI, etc. always say "Denver vs. Philadelphia", not "Broncos vs. Eagles." When used in that context, and when announcers say things like "Philadelphia has to run the ball more" it unconsciencly appears is if they are talking about us Philadelphians.

Obviously team alliances will vary if you grew up in an area halfway between two sports markets, or if you frequently moved from city to city as a child. I can understand why a guy would be a Phillies/Steelers fan if he grew up in Harrisburg.

I will never understand the Philadelphia Cowboys fan. They are sadists with no hometown pride.

Dan - you were rightly vilified yesterday. You called us out.

[Dustin Diamond]

The Phillies already have their leftfielder for next season:

John Mayberry Jr (acquired yesterday for Golson). He will platoon in left with Stairs and/or Jenkins.

Bringing in Mayberry makes the outfielders:
Werth
Victorino
Jenkins
Stairs
Mayberry Jr.

No room for anyone else.

[Loqiel]

Here's the Simmons article.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/020227

[Loqiel]

Try this one instead:

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/simmons/020226.html

[DLo34]

@ Screech/Dustin Diamond

I believe (and sincerely hope) that is an inaccurate statement. Putting all your eggs in an unproven minor leaguer against all left handed pitching would not be a wise platoon.

[Wick]

Dan - I am also glad that you experienced the Philly passion strongly and personally enough during the Phillies championship run that it made you want to be an Eagles fan.

[Loqiel]

Some comments on the Simmons article:

6. We must all follow this without fail. To be fair, the marketing numbers have said we are. I believe it was said this is the second biggest run on championship merchandise ever; only Red Sox fans in 2004 beat it.

9. Eagles fans, take note. It's okay to hope Reid and McNabb choke the rest of the games away if you want a regime change.

11. Oi.

12. Thou shalt love Amaro Jr. for five years.. seven if the Phillies repeat (ruled upon in a seperate article).

14. Not a problem.

15c. I cheered for the Eagles in the Super Bowl under this.

18. I grew up in the middle of nowhere, so the Broncos were okay.

19. No changing teams! (And yes, I was an MJ fan and continued to follow the Bulls after he left.. twice).

[ill]

so I know you guys care, but I got 2nd in 'Duk's captioning thing yesterday. I'm pretty awesome.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Retro-C-a-C-The-Boss-acts-as-The-Barber-of-The-?urn=mlb,123717

[dc]

Wherever you're raised is usually where your allegiance will lie, but with some caveats. For instance, I lived in upstate NY for 4 years and I consider the Bills to be my second team. I like the Sabres (yea yea I know) also but I can only root for them when it has no bearing on the Flyers (sorta like certain fantasy situations).

The only fans that really piss me off are central/south jersey people who love the Yankees/Giants...

Ever meet those random allegiance fans? "Well I saw Dan Marino play and I've been a fan of the Dolphins ever since." I'm assuming they were blank slates (their parents didn't really care about sports) but it's weird that their friends didn't correct them early on. I remember I owned some random apparel early on (magic parka, rockies shirt) because I liked the colors but I was eventually weened off it.

[Kevin]

I have lived in Baltimore my whole life, but my entire family is from roxbrough. I have three older brothers so there wasnt a chance in hell that i was going to be anything but a philly sports fan. Flyers, Phils, Eagles and the sixers through and through. People always ask me, "your not even from philly why are you an eagles fan or phillies fan, what made you pick them". That always fires me up because I know that people from baltimore just dont understand what its like to be a real fan of a team. Its amazing how no one cared about football here until the ravens won a championship and now i got to put up with a bunch of idiots wearing purple every sunday. I am just so damn proud of my dad and brothers and especially my grandfather for teaching me to be a Philly fan. None of my friends or co workers can even understand how much those teams and especially the Phils World Championship meant to me. They got handed a team and then 5 years later won a superbowl. I just hope and pray that sunday in Baltimore Our Eagles can just deliver a huge victory and just give us some hope from the rest of the season.

[BleedGreenVA]

Great Writeup.

I have a college buddy who grew up outside of Detroit and I respect the fact that he is a Wings, Pistons and Tigers fan...however he is a Cowboys fan. His father is a Steelers fan and I would respect that but a Cowboys fan? he is 25 which puts his formative years right around the 90's cowgirls and their championships.

Makes me sick.

I work with alot of people from all over the country and work on sundays. my co-workers include:
2 Eagles Fans
2 Broncos Fans
3 Jets Fans
3 Steelers Fans
2 Vikings Fans
3 Patriots Fans
1 Redskins Fan
1 Colts Fan
1 Giants Fan
1 Seahawk Fan
1 Ravens Fan
1 Dolphins Fan
1 Panthers Fan
1 Cowboys Fan
1 49ers Fan

We all live outside of Washington DC and still keep our team pride...the team polo shirts and Id Badge lanyards is pretty funny and someone is always matched up which is fun.

We didn't move to DC and become Skins Fans cause thats not what sports is about.

I Drove home to Philly for the opening night loss and the loss to the mets in late August. I made two phils/nats games also.

Your born with it or raised with it, end of story.

[Matt]

I grew up in New York, but my dad was from Philly, as were all of his family who are HUGE sports fans. The fact that my formative years were around 1980 (re:all 4 philly teams were in the finals, respectively) probably had something to do with me becoming a die hard Philly fan as a kid and ever since. Mostly I took a lot of crap from friends but that just made me even more entrenched. I have always known that the joy of a championship for a loyal philly fan was so much sweeter than any spoiled ny fan can imagine. I felt it with the 80 phils, the 83 sixers, and now FINALLY again in 08.

To me, having the mantle of being a true Philly fan passed down to me by my dad is something that is priceless. It means being knowledgeable, loyal, and tough. The few ocaissions over the years when I get down to see those teams in person become like going to Mecca.

And I still hate those f****ing frontrunner yankee/cowboy fans here who were douchebags as kids ...and still are.

[TJB]

I grew up and live in Central PA-not exactly the shadows of Philly. Most fans I meet in this area are Philly fans, with some Pittsburgh mixed in. I can deal with it.

As a 90's kid, it always pissed me off to see those Cowboys/Bulls/Yankees fans. Bandwagon much?

I think true fandom IS a birthright. The Phillies are my team because they were my dad's team. They were his team because they were his older brother's and grandfather's team.

You can have those fringe fans. For instance, my girlfriend (who is from New York) is a new Phillies and Eagles fan. She never paid much attention to sports until we started dating. But just the other week at work she told me how she was trash talking a Red Sox fan because the Phillies were able to beat the Rays when the Sox couldn't! Made me proud! Will she ever be a true Philly fan though? Not sure...