Caps Fans vs. Flyers Fans: Please.

Cheeseboy (!) over at the DC Sports Bog has a post today titled "Caps Fans vs. Philly Fans."  Steinberg takes some jabs at our loyal fanbase and then talks to former Flyer Donald Brashear about whether he's ever witnessed any crazy activity in Philly.

"No, but you always hear about it," he said. "It's mostly in football. It's not that bad, it's just they can rock that building and get the building going. They like the physical play and they like the rough stuff. Philly does play physical, and they've always been a physical team, so we're gonna have to be ready to play physical."

I'll say this. I was at a Caps game on a Friday night in November and it appeared as if maybe 10,000 people were in the Verizon Center. We showed up 10 minutes before the game and sat 12 rows off the ice.  Flyers fans show up every night. It's not even worth discussing. Any city can get excited about the playoffs.

He then goes on to ponder whether DC is a "hockey town." Again, DC may be a hockey town but I'd guess it's still a football town. But no matter what team gets the most love in DC, it's still a second rate sports city in terms of real fans.

Comments

[Gep]

As a flyers fan in DC I couldn't agree more. Flyers fans are way more dedicated, it's not even comparable.

[Tartan69]

I lived in DC for 8 years before I moved to Philly. Pittsburgh for 4 before that. Went to numerous Caps and Pens games over the years. Went to a few Devils/Rangers/Islanders games as well. Here's how it breaks down IMHO:

Pens fans - good fans, but the building sucks, and they sucked SO bad between Mario and Crosby that even the most dedicated town would have trouble supporting the team. A generally knowledgeable and somewhat underrated fanbase.
Rangers fans - similar fanbase to Philly actually. Did you know they have a dancing guy too?
Devils fans - the Atlanta Braves of hockey fans, nuff said
Islanders fans - not bad, although that building is SOOO old. Generally knowledgeable.
Caps fans - who?
Flyers fans - THE MOST INTIMIDATING FANS IN HOCKEY!!!!!111!!

Seriously, DC is a Redskins and Terps town. And that's it. Playoff games there are filled by at LEAST 50% visiting team fans. They are as bandwagon as they come.

[Chad D]

Can you tell me which Cap fan jumped (fell?) into the penalty box to fight Domi?

[johndewar]

I have several college buddies that live in DC, who are originally either from Philly or Pittsburgh, and there is no question that DC is a Redskin town, period.

There is some buzz around the Caps right now, but I doubt many people going to these caps games now could name a Cap from before Ovechkin got there.

[Displaced Philadelphian]

Yeah, I was on the Metro the other day after a game, and my train car got maybe half full with people at the Verizon Center stop. I cannot emphasize enough, as a Philly girl in DC, how different the atmosphere is here with sports (football excluded). I don't think I've seen one thing about the Caps in the playoffs down here, making it the polar opposite of back home. Go Flyers!!!

[B.]

Flyers fans are some of the most intimidating fans out there but ONLY during playoff time. It can be a snoozefest in that arena sometimes during the regular season.

The dancing guy in NY came long before the idiot in Philly.

[littles]

philly fans > washington fans
washington team > philly team

you choose which is more important...

[Tartan69]

B. The dancing guy in NY came long before the idiot in Philly.

Yes he did...I never said that he didn't. A much different style though...a tad more "intense". Takes himself a little more seriously than Shawn Hill does (a big point in Shawn's favor, IMHO).

[johndewar]

wow, New york had a dancing guy first. Congratulations! That gives New York another thing, other than financial corruption and air pollution, to be first at.

[Pete D]

I lived down in DC for the last , went to numerous Caps/Zards/Nats/Redskins games, and outside of the Skins (moderate frauds) all DC sports fans are major frauds. At any game in the Verizon center you will see more suits and preppy clothing than jerseys or real fans...maybe they have been priced out, but no one in the arena seems to have much more than a passing interest on the game. DC a hockey town? Whoever wrote that should have his internet access revoked.

[Caps fan]

Philly is just an awful city. How can you be proud of it? Flyers will let you down as always.
@John - One thing about the playoffs you've seen? Get out of your cave!

[dmg]

As someone who grew up in D.C. and is a loyal Capitals (and other Washington sports teams) fan I have to say that Washington has a huge number of bandwagoners; the worst kind too: the kind that don't realize they're bandwagoners even though they suddenly care about a team that's in the playoffs after years of ignoring them. In some cases that doesn't both me: both my parents have lived in D.C. for 25 years and neither are big hockey fans and they're keeping tabs on the Caps to see what happens but neither would claim to be a die-hard fan. On the other hand I have a friend who by and large ignored the Capitals for years and now suddenly is bragging about being at their end of the season home games like he's been there day in and day out for years. That bugs me.

I think it's primarily due to two things: (1)There are so many options for entertainment and so many busy people in D.C. that you have to be good to command attention and (2) there are so many people in D.C. who didn't grow up there or haven't lived there all that long. Note that reason 1 doesn't apply to Redskins and in fact might work in their favor since it gives people a way to get into the local sports teams but only takes a few hours out of every Sunday to watch the team's whole season.

As for D.C. being a hockey town? Not even close (sorry Caps fans). I think you have to cut it a little slack - the team has never won a Cup and for years was treated by Abe Polin at the redheaded stepchild of Washington Sports and the Capitals attendance struggles you mentioned aren't surprising given who bad the team had been for several years. Bad teams will kill loyalty anywhere; Washington has actually outdrawn Boston 6 of the last 10 seasons. With a good ownership and management group in place I think there's potential for the Capitals to become a decent force on the Washington sports scene...but it might be a while before we can really talk about D.C. being a "hockey town."

[Matt Brown]

Oh no, I only went to 3 hockey games this year and now I want to go to a playoff game, I must be a bangwagoner...

[BigTom]

The biggest problem about D.C. is that most people who live there are transplants. I lived there for five years and I can tell you that besides the skins, D.C. is full of fair weather fans. I remember getting a caps ticket was as easy as walking up to the box office and buying a 22 dollar ticket. Once in the Verizon Center, you can just move down, as there are only about 8,000 people in the arena. The only time I had problems finding a caps ticket was when the flyers were in town. So many people came from philly that it seemed like a flyers home game. Alot of people there were shocked when I told them that a Flyers ticket (I have an Eagles connection) was the hardest ticket to find in philly.
Plus, you also have to remember that South of philly, fans are not as hardcore as those philly on north.

[StikSav]

So if Philly is such a wonderous city, why did all of these Flyers living in DC leave? LOL

[C. Stone]

I'm a Caps fan in DC and screw it. I'll admit that D.C. as a whole is full of fair-weather clowns. The Caps (and any team in D.C. that doesn't start with R and end with edskins) have about 10,000 loyal fans that will show up through thick and thin, and anything over that has to be chalked up to the ebb and flow of the city's attention span (if the Skins are still playing/good) and how the Caps are doing. That's why you get announced attendance of 14K until the new year, and sellouts or near-sellouts over the last few weeks.

That being said, it's not just a District thing. Philly is one of VERY few towns where fans will show up no matter the product on the playing surface. Look at the Penguins the year before the lockout ... dead last in attendance. Look at Buffalo the year before that ... 27th out of 30. And now that those teams are expected to win and their buildings are full everyone lauds them for sticking with them through thick and thin. Good story, but not really true.

Most cities are the same. Completely indifferent when their team sucks, then when the team gets get good all of a sudden they can't print tickets fast enough.

That being said, I'll take the 14K of loud, excited-for-the-future fans that we were getting early this year over the 19K of suit-and-tie, using their cell phones mid-game, sitting-on-their-hands corporate types that we were getting during the Jagr years...

[dmg]

I don't think anyone would say that someone who goes to several games a year is a bandwagoner; if they do they're a bit crazy.

But D.C. has a large contingent of people who ignored the Capitals for years, only got on board during the season's last few games because they heard the team was doing well and are now calling themselves hardcore fans. To a certain degree that's natural - any team in any city is going to draw more fans when they're playing well and almost anyone will give more attention to the teams they root for peripherally when they're good. Personally the people who bug me are the ones who don't pay attention for years and then suddenly when a team is good they act as if they've been a diehard for years (oftentimes this is accompanied by making bold assertions that don't make any sense)

[C. Stone]

That being said that being said.....

[Big Tom]

And a tip for everyone who will be doing some trash talking this week. In D.C., Joe Gibbs is a god. I know its a hockey series, but badmouthing Gibbs really gets people in D.C. going- its really funny- all of the fans there think it is still 1993.

[teddy]

I don't know, I'm a Philly transplant to DC and have lived here for 7 years, and I don't think many people who live IN THE DISTRICT are fans of the local teams, including the Redskins. So much of the population of the people living in the actual city of DC have come from other places, so they are fans of a myriad of other teams. Its rare, in my experience, to find anyone who lives in the city who is a Redskins fan.

Now, the suburbs are a different story. All the MD-ers and VA-ers are Redskins fans, as well as Caps, Wizards and Nats fans to an extent. But those people aren't DC residents. So, this whole discussion, in my opinion, is moot unless you seperate the suburbs from the city. It's two totally different discussions then.

[Briere loves to spear]

If I lived in Philly and wasn't a sports fan, I would probally go to games too. What the else is there besides the Liberty Bell and getting mugged?

second rate to the Redskins? Of course. And Flyers are more popular then the Eagles? Please. At least the Skins have won something. Eagles are pathetic. I wish all you Philly fans luck coming down to the Phone Booth-your going to leave embarrassed and sad.

[Tartan69]

Briere loves to spear: Wow that was a pathetic post...please bring something to the table next time douchebag

teddy: Obviously since there's only like 500k people in the district, we have to include the MD and VA suburbs. I think that was a given. I used to take the Orange line from Fairfax into Metro Center and transfer over to the Phone Booth all the time to see games. And even within that 500k, there's a high percentage of residents that don't really fit the "hockey demographic" if you know what I mean.

There's no less entertainment options in Philly than there is in DC (I've lived in both). It's truly a matter of people that live in the DC area are much more likely to be transient as opposed to a higher percentage of people in Philly that live there their whole lives. That's what gives a fanbase its mojo.

[pepper]

I've been a die-hard Caps fan since 1990 (I'm one of the 10,000 previously mentioned). Its true that DC is a BS sports town, but I grew up with the Caps and so that's my team, even as I've moved to NYC many years ago.

I agree that DC having other entertainment options is no excuse - NYC has plenty more and yet sports talk and passion is everywhere here.

But what is happening in DC right now, with Ovechkin's ascendance (a hockey player so far off the charts compared to anyone who's ever skated for Washington), the shocking storybook comeback to win the "NASCAR Division" (yeah, still bitter about my team being tossed out of the old Patrick), and MAYBE a deep playoff run this year, things may change dramatically in favor of building a die-hard Caps fan base for seasons to come - much like success in Dallas turned an ambivalent area into a legit hockey market, kids playing in developed local leagues, etc.

[Bill]

The Caps have been drawing since the Ovechkin signing, even when our record was still pretty poor. People were concerned that ownership wouldn't pay him (I wasn't one of them). I'm not saying it's a hockey town, but showing that the team was committed to winning brought back a lot of fans, especially after the fire-sale. I think a lot of my fellow season ticket holders are actually put out by all the "new" fans, because it makes concessions a pain. I'm enjoying the run.

[SPark]

FLYERS are going to destroy the CRAPitals! As for the fans it's not even a competion. Flyers fans are the best in the NHL. As well as the most intimidating. I've already smacked the sh@t out of some Maple Leaf fans who made the trip down for the playoffs. Any Caps fans try to come up to the Wachovia Center will meet the same fate!

Go FlyBoyz!

[Francis]

As a person who lived in D.C. mostly his whole life but is an avid Flyers fan (my parents were from Philly and instilled a deep love of Philly sports in me, my mother also went on a few dates with Bernie Parent btw) I can tell you that Washington, D.C. is a pretty awful sports town. They'll never support the Nationals, just like they don't support the Caps or Wizards. In fairness, the Caps and Wizards have been historically bad, but it wasn't so long ago that Kolzig won the Vezina (2000) and the Caps won the Eastern Conference (1998). The problem, as many have outlined, is that so many people are transplants, and this will always be true. They come from NY, Philly, Boston, Pittsburgh, and all cities in the east, and come to root on their teams heartily in the Washington building/stadium. I've only seen four or five Flyers games in Philadelphia (in addition to them being hard to come by) because when the Flyers are in Washington it's essentially a Flyers home game with easy access to tickets and low prices. However, holding ANY city to the standard of Philadelphia with regard to the Flyers is unfair. For whatever reason, the Flyers are quite possibly the most fanatically supported sports team in the United States in a sport other than football. Even the Red Sox selling out every single inch of Fenway has not been a perpetual thing (see: the 1980s, the Red Sox couldn't give away tickets). In Philadelphia, we're damn fair weather about the Phillies and Sixers when they're bad, aren't we? Just look at the Sixers attendance this year - embarassing numbers. The fact of the matter is that with a few exceptions every sports team in North America can fall victim to small crowds and lackluster fan support, from original six franchises (Boston Bruins cannot fill that building and it's a playoff team) to new expansion teams. D.C. is not a good sports town, and I know from experience, but if small crowds are your barometer, almost every city has been guilty of that at one time or another.